Few players in NBA history have been as successful and played with so many iconic players and superstar duos as Chicago Bulls legend Horace Grant.

From winning four NBA titles, three with the Bulls and one with the Los Angeles Lakers, to playing alongside greats like Michael Jordan, Scottie Pippen, Penny Hardaway, Kobe Bryant and Shaquille O’Neal while being coached by arguably the greatest head coach of all time in Phil Jackson, Grant has seen it all on the NBA level and now is sharing his basketball wisdom and experiences on his new show, Legends in Session.

Grant recently spoke to EssentiallySports about his new show, as well as several topics, from his time playing in the league to his thoughts on the NBA today.

Editor’s note: The following one-on-one conversation has been edited and condensed.

Tell us a little bit about your new show, Legends in Session.

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“It’s called Legends in Session and it’s basically like a TV series/podcast, if you will. I’m interviewing, you know, my old teammates, guys that I played against in the NBA. They’ve just given us their life stories in terms of as a child, how they grew up from there to adolescence, college, and their particular professional careers, like football, baseball, and, of course, basketball. And, you know, I asked them what they’re doing now, you know, to talk about how they’re giving back, their charities and things of that nature. And we just reminisce about the 80s, 90s basketball compared to now, the 2020 basketball.”

Didn’t you just have Phil Jackson on?

“Yes, I just had PJ on. It was such a delight, man, to get his insight on not just basketball, but life itself, and how he’s dealing with life and some great advice that he shared with my audience.”

The Bulls made a trade ahead of the NBA trade deadline, sending Nikola Vučević to the Boston Celtics for Anfernee Simons. What are your thoughts on the move?

“I’m a big Vučević fan. I love the way he plays. He gives it out there every single time he goes. But the young man they traded for is going to be a stud, I think, with the Bulls, because I watched him in Portland when he was there before he got to Boston. And the young man is going to be a very good player in this league.”

When you look back at the Bulls’ first three championships, what stands out the most to you about that group and that moment in time?

“Looking back on the first three championships, I think the most important thing was how we grew as a unit, how we matured as a unit. You know, getting our teeth kicked in by the Detroit Pistons for two to three years and now learning from that. And we as a team, along with getting mature mentally and physically, and I think just the trust that we gained with each other got us over the hump.”

Those early ’90s Bulls teams were loaded. What made that chemistry work so well night in, night out?

“I think it starts off with the leadership with MJ, Michael Jordan. And then you had basically the second in command with Scottie Pippen. And then us as role players, we knew our particular role that we had to play in order for the Chicago Bulls as a basketball team, we knew we had to play a certain role to be successful. And that’s what we did.”

You spent most of your prime years playing next to MJ. What separated him from every other superstar you’ve ever been around?

“I was very, very blessed to play with so many guys, Hall of Famers and future Hall of Famers. What made MJ different was just the passion, tenacity, and the will that he had for his craft, the game. And in terms of making us better players, making us better teammates.

“Playing with the Lakers and playing with the late great Kobe Bryant, if I had to compare the two, if you will, the same passion, the same work ethic, the no-nonsense type of, put your hard hat on and you go out and do it and make your teammates better. And that was Kobe Bryant. So if I had to choose one, it would be Kobe Bryant, similar to MJ, but with MJ’s mindset, I don’t see no one else.”

Do you believe MJ is the GOAT?

“As I stated, I’m very blessed to play with, you know, of course, MJ and Pip and then Shaq and Penny Hardaway, Gary Payton and Karl Malone, then Shaq and Kobe. So I’ve been there throughout, and the word ‘GOAT,’ I mean, a lot of people say it’s the rings. If it’s the rings, you have to say Bill Russell, but if it’s the rebounding, you have to go look at Dennis Rodman.

“But I think overall what changed the game and never lost in the NBA Finals, and the work ethic that he put out there, and no disrespect to any of the other you can hardly say other GOATs, Kobe or LeBron [James], or if I had to choose a GOAT, Michael Jeffrey Jordan would be that GOAT.”

Is there a behind-the-scenes MJ moment that you can share?

“He’s one of the most competitive people who doesn’t like to lose at anything. Pip, MJ, and I used to play cards and gamble based on anything. And I remember one year, before we had the private planes, we had to come through the commercial airports, and, long story short, we started betting on whose luggage would come out first.

“And for some reason, I think MJ won like seven or 10 times in a row, different trips, of course. We found out later that he was paying the luggage guy to bring his bags out first (laughs).”

Would you call Scottie Pippen the most underrated player in your era?

“I don’t think he was underrated. When you’re playing alongside, you can argue, say, the greatest player who ever played the game, you’re going to get overlooked a little bit. Anybody in their right mind, any NBA fan who knows the game, any coach, any player during our era knew how important Scottie Pippen was to our team, the Chicago Bulls and as well as the NBA.”

Who do you think is the most underrated player right now in the NBA?

“That’s a very, very good question. The most underrated one. That’s a tough one. He’s been hurt a little bit. If I had to choose one right now, the young man out of Orlando from Duke, Paolo [Banchero].

“And I know he’s an All-Star, but the young man, Cade Cunningham.”

What part of your game do you feel never got enough credit?

“That’s a good question. I would say my 15 to 17-foot jumper that I developed.”

So you played with Kobe and Shaq. What was it like playing with that duo compared to playing with MJ and Pippen?

“With MJ and Pippen, of course, Shaq and Kobe, I think the only difference is that I grew up with MJ and Pippen. I was there for the maturation of all three of us, basically coming up together and depending on each other, especially on the defensive, man.

“I think that’s the only difference because in LA, man, I saw a mature Shaq and a Kobe Bryant with, basically, just coming into his own after they had won the first championship there in 99-2000, in LA.”

When you were watching Kobe, like playing alongside him, did you just see Jordan? Like a younger version of MJ?

“It was a trip, man. I remember one game in one series, we were playing the San Antonio Spurs, and Shaq got into foul trouble. I think he fouled out, and I’m thinking, ‘Wow, it’s going to be a long game. And Kobe’s words to us, ‘I got this, I got this.’

“And man, I thought I was looking at Michael Jeffrey Jordan out there. He was dunking on David Robinson, dunking backwards, scoring at will, and leading us to a victory. From that moment on, I’m like, ‘Man, this has to be the second coming of MJ.’

“To be that great, you got to have a different mindset. I mean, you got to look at like, a Michael Jordan, a Kobe Bryant, you got to look at a Larry Bird, Magic Johnson, those guys. They were straight-up killers.”

How do you think those ’90s Bulls teams would fare in today’s NBA?

“I think those 90’s Bulls team would dominate. I say that with respect to the [Golden State] Warriors doing that thing, the San Antonio Spurs did that thing during that time, the Miami Heat. But I think just with MJ, Pippen and myself, and we had a great bench, man.

“I think even we would adjust to the no-hand-checking and today’s NBA. Um, I think we were definitely intelligent enough to adjust quickly and saying that, I don’t think the NBA today would adjust as quickly to the physicality that we had going on back in the day.”

Do you see a player in the NBA today that reminds you of you?

“I watched a young man out of Denver, Aaron Gordon. He can shoot the ball, he plays both ends, and he comes to work out there every single game.

“I remember a few years back, he was hobbling in the playoffs, but he came out there and gave it his all. So I would say Aaron Gordon.”

What’s your biggest critique of today’s style of play? What do you like and don’t like?

“I love the talent. You can’t argue with that now. Look at what the Joker [Nikola Jokic] is doing. He can barely jump over a piece of paper, but he’s out there doing almost everything. He’s had triple-doubles and is making his teammates so much better.

“But the con would have to be, I wish it could get a little more physical. I don’t want to get as physical as the ’80s and ’90s, but I get tired of seeing review after review when someone accidentally gets hit in the face.

“Somebody put a hand on someone and he was acting like they’re about to jump off a building, you know? Like he’s about to call 9-1-1.”

Do you have a Kobe or a Shaq story? Something that maybe you haven’t told?

“Shaq is just a big kid, bro. I mean, even in Orlando, when I was there with him, and of course in LA.”

You saw two different versions of him, didn’t you?

“Yes, absolutely. He was a young kid in Orlando. He was just a bigger kid in LA. If I had to point out one thing, the one thing in LA, when Shaq gets tired of practicing, he gets tired. And of course, Phil wanted to continue practicing. And I remember, one of our teammates, Mark Madsen, we called him Mad Dog. He was guarding Shaq. He was being physical with Shaq, and Shaq was tired. He was irritated.

“Long story short, he got the ball in the post and I thought Mad Dog was dead. Shaq hit him so hard. Next thing, Mad Dog jumped off the floor and said, ‘Is that all you got?’ And then, right there, Phil just called practice over because he knew Shaq was going to try to kill him.”

When Bulls fans or even just NBA fans talk about that dynasty, what do you hope they remember most about you?

“I would say, I put my heart into every game. I knew my role was to rebound, play defense, hit that 15 to 17-foot jumper when I was open. Got better each year as a player and just enjoyed my time in Chicago and loved that city, enjoyed the fans and had some great, great teammates.”